Episode 9: Who doesn't have a praise kink?

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INFO:
We’ve known each other since 2013 but now we know each other on quite frankly an unnecessary level after recording this episode lmao. Using a few decks courtesy of So Cards, we ask each other some set questions and end up discussing smoking, Zarina’s dream job, education reform, how our exes don’t exist, IBS in public, taxi drivers, becoming Jack Grealish, and of course, our shared praise kink.

GDLP - Hello, welcome to the latest episode of the White Pube Podcast. My name is Gabrielle de la Puente…

ZM - And I’m Zarina Muhammad.

GDLP - …and we have a special episode today, can everyone raise a toast, because we finally got a sponsored episode of the podcast!

ZM - First one, woo woo woo!

GDLP - We’re moving up in the world. We want to thank So Cards for sponsoring todays episode. So… Cards is a game for those who want to skip the small talk. Each card contains a question crafted for deeper discussions. They’re made to get us from ‘how are you’ to ‘who are you’. One can say these aren’t cards against humanity, they’re cards for humanity. And that’s basically what we’re going to do on today’s episode, which is exciting. So… Cards were nice enough to send us decks and we are just going to do a little heart-to-heart tonight. There are probably plenty of readers and listeners of The White Pube who don’t actually know who we are, so this is a very intimate introduction, if that is the case.

ZM - I think it’d be a good idea, AMA - Ask Me Anything. But not that. 

GDLP - So we’ve got the original volume and volume 2, we’re going to switch between those and ask each other questions.

ZM - There is also, hold on, shall we mention the sexy deck? There’s a sexy deck, for like, more than friends, 18+. We’re not going to do that because… I don’t know, none of that funny business!

GDLP - But it’s good for other people to know it exists.

Yeah, good to know. I might whip it out at the next pre drinks.

GDLP - I’m going to go first. I’m going to ask you - what’s one habit you wish you had broken years ago?

Easy, smoking.

GDLP - Gasp! I thought you loved smoking?

ZM - I do, it’s my favourite hobby. But that’s why I wish I’d broken it years ago, because I love it so much, I’m never going to stop. For context, readers, I do not advocate smoking, I think it’s a filthy habit, disgusting. But I do fucking love smoking, oh god! I’m like a chimney. I wish, when I was a little teenager and I thought, what’s that? I wish I’d just put it down.

GDLP - How did you get into smoking?

ZM - I dunno, I just thought it was really cool. My friend smoked, and I was like, ah let me bum one! It starts how anyone starts, right? Social smoking then eventually you’re like, I kind of want one on my own, just as a little nice quiet time. A little break.

GDLP - As someone who doesn’t smoke…

ZM - Have you ever?

GDLP - No, I’ve never smoked.

ZM - Not even one little toke?

GDLP - No! Because I think I was so traumatised by the idea of what it does to you, no offence, to you.

ZM - Don’t remind me, don’t! I know. It’s an awful, filthy habit.

GDLP - But like, the images were burned into my mind and I just couldn’t, I was too scared. But because of that I don’t understand what’s enjoyable about it.

ZM - I don’t understand either. 

GDLP - Come on, you’re a writer. You do words. What is it?

ZM - Hmm. It feels nice, it’s a nice taste that I’m used to now. Also I really enjoy the repetitive action, it’s normally a quiet time where I’m on my own, having a little break - I think I just like having little breaks. It’s normally the kind of time where I’m outside… a bit of fresh air… is it fresh air, really? 

GDLP - And the reason you wish you’d broken that habit years ago is because of health?

ZM - Yeah, because this will kill me. As I enter, as I approach… I’m nowhere near 30, can I just say… no, hold on, how old am I, Gab?

GDLP - You’re 27.

ZM - I started when I was what, 15, 16? That’s a long time, that’s a lot of damage, I think. As I approach 30 I think, if I don’t stop now, then I might never. But I love it.

GDLP - Is it something that you think about a lot, or do you never sit down to have this moment of stark reality, you just get on with it? How often do you think about health when you’re smoking? 

ZM - Not all the time, but sometimes I’ll be there and I’ll be like… oh no, this is really bad, I should stop this. It’s a silly habit, and it’s quite expensive as well, like, in the grand scheme of the cost of living crisis…

GDLP - Yeah, how much does it cost? I literally have no idea.

ZM - I’ll buy a little… this is an advert for smoking now, accidentally, because I’m just sat here saying I love it, telling you what I buy, my recommendations… don’t do it! This is so stupid. But I buy a little 50g bag of baccy, rizla and filters are like £1, £2, there’s no point counting it in the grand scheme of things. But what, 50g is like, £30? That’ll last me 2, 2-and-a-half weeks.

GDLP - The cost of living, though. The cost of living, Zarina!

ZM - I know, I know.

GDLP - You won’t be able to afford the cost of living if you’re dead!

(LAUGHTER)

GDLP -…sorry. Oh god help us.

ZM - OK. I’m asking you a question now… I’m going to choose from deck 2. If you had to come up with a new class that everyone is required to take in school, what would it be?

GDLP - That’s a lovely question. OK. I would like - this is very specific - but I would like everyone to have a lesson about chronic illnesses and disability. I’m sure there are plenty of other important subjects but that’s what’s on the brain. I just cannot believe that I’ve got to to the age I did before I got sick, I was 26 when I got ill with long covid, which is now Postural Orthostatic Tachychardia Syndrome, now I’m on beta-blockers. Every single day I have to manage every little thing I do to make sure I don’t crash or get in too much pain. It’s a full time pain management simulation. Because of the work that I have to do and the knowledge I’ve had to gain myself, this late in life, I really wish I’d have known earlier more about health. Essentially, everyone becomes disabled, eventually - through age, and if not then, people are born with disabilities or chronic illnesses or they gain them at some point in their life through injury or sickness, or any number of other factors. I just think that if I personally had known more from a younger age I would have been more compassionate, I would have known that there is a high statistic of people that have invisible shit going on in their life. I think I would have been kinder, and I regret that I did not have that in mind when I went about life, because now it’s every day. I think if kids knew that, they would be sensitive to it. They would grow up being more sensitive to the widespread-ness of it all, and what people go through. I think it would change how this country’s culture around work is, and socialisation, and access to culture. If it was really, really a fundamental lesson, and it wasn’t just a one-off thing, it was delivered in a special way that really brought it home to people - I think the world would be a kinder place. It’s probably a really soppy answer, but…

ZM - No, that’s the point of that question!

GDLP - That would be my lesson. 

ZM - Do you think there’s a particular way you want kids to learn about it as well? There’s a particular way that people with disabilities and chronic illnesses are spoken about in mainstream culture, TV, right? It’s very patronising. They get people on the news and they’re like, my god, this person overcame! That’s shit, obviously, a really horrible way to talk about a person and the body they’re in. They overcame what, their body? Shut up. Is there a specific way you would like kids to learn about, by talking about it, in a specific way? A bad clumsy question - how would you like them to learn about it as opposed to what exists currently.

GDLP - I think the best way is just to make it as casual as possible - not casual as in, not important, but casual as in - not a horror story. I was hanging out with my boyfriend’s niece and nephews the other day, and they wanted to go out to the field and play, and the little girl was like, are you coming? And I said, I can’t, I can’t stand up for too long. And she just looked at me and didn’t know what to say and ran away as if I’d just said something really scary, and I really regretted the way I’d said it. Because I think she looks up to me and I didn’t want her to think this was like, an inevitability for everyone.

ZM - I know what you mean.

GDLP - I don’t know how to soothe that delivery, because it is scary and it is a difficult thing but there’s got to be a way to get that balance right. If it does happen, this is what you can do to make things better. This is how society should be, so you are supported and accommodated for. That’s the scary bit, if you were to speak to kids I don’t know how you would get around that, the country is so shit. There’s only so far you can go to make disability and sickness seem like an OK thing, otherwise you’re toxic positivitying the whole shit and that’s not helpful either.

ZM - Maybe placing the horror portion of it towards the structural part, maybe that’s good because you can radicalise all the kids and like, take them along? 

GDLP - Teach them institutional critique!

ZM - That sounds fine if they’re angry, they should be angry about that. Do you know what I mean?

GDLP - Maybe there will be like a Greta Thunberg for disability rights activism. Maybe there already has been but that person didn’t reach the headlines in the same way Greta is? I can’t believe we’ve just gone from smoking to disability rights.

ZM - We’ve got range!

GDLP - And do you know what, plenty of disabled people smoke because they fucking love it as well, so. It is what it is. We are inclusive on this podcast! OK…. what dream / dreams have you given up that you wish you hadn’t?

ZM - Gab, I’m living the dream!

GDLP - You’re living the dream!

ZM - I’m not being funny but I am living my best life. I don’t want to sound like, no nazar, this is a nazar free zone. No nazar! So glad, I’m living the dream. I love my job, I love my friends, I love my life. I don’t think I’d change anything. The only dream I have at the moment is to run a half marathon and I’m still in training for that, I haven’t given that up. I will never. I’ll be 60 years old, banging out 15Ks, being like - only 6 more to go!

GDLP - Was there never something that you were really into when you were younger and you thought, I’m going to do that! And now you’re in another place?

ZM - Right, yes.

GDLP - What I’m saying is - if you had multiple timelines, where you did everything, what would the other timelines be doing?

ZM - Right. The other timeline Zarinas, I rebuke them, because- and I’m aware how this is going to sound, and I would like to disclaimer, this is not where I’m at! I realise pretty quickly this is a terrible thing. As soon as 9-11 happened, I clocked, no, bad idea…

GDLP - Where is this going!

ZM - The context is, I was a little shit, yeah? I was a gobby kid. I was the oldest in my family out of all the cousins, I was a girl, right? My dad really wanted a boy I think, so he treated me like I was a lad. I was a little tom boy, OK? That’s the context that this dream job existed within. I really wanted to join…

GDLP - What are you going to say?! The police??

ZM - No! Worse! The army!

GDLP - Ohhh!

ZM - Do you see what I mean? I hate that. I wanted to specifically be a pilot in the RAF, for a good two years. Then 9-11 happened and I was like, no way! Muhammad, you’re out of there!

GDLP - When did you start wearing glasses? You need really good eyesight for that job!

(LAUGHTER)

ZM - I was like… I’ll take pilot, I’ll take mechanic, I want to be working on them planes! Love it. No idea where that came from. I’ve no idea.

GDLP - That is so strange.

ZM - Isn’t it random? I was just like, yeah, I want to be a mechanic in the RAF. Then 9-11, no way, it ain’t happening. 

GDLP - Did you want to shoot people, Zarina?

ZM - I don’t know!

GDLP - That’s the clip that we advertise this podcast with. You wanted to shoot people! Or did you want to just be the mechanic? What did you want to do?

ZM - This is such a repressed memory that I’ve just unlocked. This is fresh, fresh from my childhood brain. I’ve not thought about this since 2001.

GDLP - Wow. So you were young, you were seven in 2001.

ZM - Yeah. But my favourite cousin had an Action Man doll and he was giving me the backstory and maybe that’s why? That’s the only reason I can think how I would possibly have known what the air force was. 

GDLP - Yeah, OK. I’ll forgive you.

ZM - What do you mean, I’ll forgive you! Hold on! This can’t be the reason I’m cancelled next, I can’t have this. I was seven.

GDLP - Yeah, you were fine, OK. We can’t cancel you.

ZM - When I was a kid I never really knew what I wanted to be growing up. I never really had a fixed idea. I was never really good at one subject, I just wanted to get through school. By the time I did get through school, I was at Art School and I was really glad I was there. I don’t think I ever really wanted to be an artist, I just wanted to have a go. My heart wasn’t really in it. I don’t think, at any point, I knew what I wanted to do until we started The White Pube and now, yeah, I just really love writing. Actually looking back, I’ve always loved writing, it’s never been something I was aware of, that I enjoyed so consistently. But now with hindsight I’m like yeah, this is the dream actually. I’m living my best life. Apart from parallel universe Zarina that is somewhere in the world shooting people, from a plane. 

GDLP - Scandal!

ZM - She’s cancelled, I hate her - the problematic bitch!

(LAUGHTER)

GDLP - Go on, your turn.

ZM - Deck one or two?

GDLP - One please.

ZM - If all your exes got together, what’s one complaint they would all agree on?

GDLP - OK!

ZM - Do you want to answer that one?

GDLP - Oooh.. yeah. I’ve not got that many exes to work through, I don’t know if there’s a unifying thought but I can walk you through my few relationships if you want, that’s juicy podcast content right there. A retrospective of my exes. That’s a good exhibition title!

ZM - A retrospective of my exes… describe my worst nightmare! I have none, I have no exes. If you think you dated me in the past - no you didn’t!

GDLP - I don’t know where my answer’s going… what are their complaints about me? I’m so perfect. What are their complaints about me! Right - I think my first boyfriend, who I dated when I was a little emo kid, would complain that he didn’t like my parents because they split us up. They kept us apart and we were so overly dramatic about the whole thing, it was just a mess. I think my second boyfriend would complain that I was paranoid he was going to cheat on me. But he did! So he can’t complain, because I was right. 

ZM - So basically, what you’re saying is, you actually are perfect and your exes are dickheads.

GDLP - Yeah, I’m saying it’s not me, it’s the situations around me.

ZM - It’s very much not you.

GDLP - Then the person I’m with now is my fiancee.

ZM - And he has no complaints at all.

GDLP - He’s got no complaints.

ZM - None.

GDLP - None. I think, OK, in all reality, I think he would complain that sometimes I put The White Pube and my creative practice as a writer above things like washing the dishes. I do the dishes, but only after I’ve finished the text, do you know what I mean? I just get so stuck in. It’s fine. The dishes can wait. Creative inspiration, however…

ZM - I do the same. We’re perfect.

GDLP - We’re perfect. Next!

ZM - As an aside, one time me and Michael went for a smoke. I’d just broken up with someone. He’s going to listen to this, so edit it out in the final edit. But he was like, you’ll be alright Zarina. One day you’ll find someone and they’ll be like, your Gab. Because she’s just perfect.

GDLP - That’s so cute!

ZM - So he actually thinks you are perfect.

GDLP - And that wouldn’t have happened if you hadn’t been smoking. So it’s all fine, full circle. This is an interesting one - you can skip it if you haven’t got an answer for it, because I can’t think of anything. But here’s a question - what’s the first thing people might find annoying if they spend an entire week with you?

ZM - An entire week with me?

GDLP - An entire week.

ZM - Hmm. I speak a lot. It is something I’ve really noticed about myself. I narrate what I’m doing while I’m doing it. I’ll have a conversation with myself about the thing i’m doing. It’s not like I’m speaking to anyone or wanting a response, I just like having a natter. I’m just a chatterbox, me.

GDLP - That’s so funny. I don’t do that, but I have a strange habit where when I’m writing an email, a text, whatever it is, I speak out loud as I’m typing. Which probably makes me look crazy and, you’ll be interested to know, I’m the only person on my road who keeps the curtains open. So not only can they see me all day, but they can see me speaking all day. Maybe they just think I’m in meetings, but I’m not! I’m just chatting to myself. It’s like when someone pretends be on a phone call but then they move the phone away and you can see they’ve just been lying the whole time. If any of the neighbours noticed I would feel so ashamed.

ZM - Your street cred, whoosh.

GDLP - It would plummet. But it’s fine if everyone who listens to this podcast knows that.

ZM - I think that’s quite, I’m aware I’m doing it and I annoy myself, but it’s got to the point where I’ve been doing it so long I’m incapable of changing it. But maybe it’s fine, we’ve got a cat so I can just talk to the cat.

GDLP - You’ve just had a cat move in with you, you’re two days in? 

ZM - Yesterday?

GDLP - Yeah, yesterday! You can just speak to the cat, that’s perfect. Problem solved. 

ZM - I can’t believe it, I’m perfect too. I don’t know what other little foible I’ve got. What do you reckon?

GDLP - I can’t really think of any. I was just about to think of one but I can’t say it on a podcast! Or maybe I can.

ZM - You’ve got to say it now! I’m going to head butt you through the screen if this is bad.

GDLP - No no, you’ll think it’s funny. The only thing I was like, hmm, I was thinking, when was the last time I spent a full week with Zarina and what got in the way? The only thing I can think of is when we went to New York and we’d be out in the middle of the world, about to go into an exhibition, and you’d go ‘I need the toilet’ and disappear for 20 minutes because you were running about New York trying to find a toilet. And then eventually you would reappear and we would resume the day. That’s the only thing I can think of, because everyone else I know can hold it. You can’t! You’re like, the toilet is the only thing that exists and you’re going to put out a signal for a toilet.

ZM - That is not what I expected you to say! I’ve got tummy problems, Gab. 

GDLP - I know! I’m sorry.

ZM - For context listeners, I am lactose intolerant. I can’t believe you’re shaming me! That was an awful morning. I can’t remember where we were but we went for breakfast and all of a sudden, I got like, a little twinge, a little lactose intolerant tummy twinge and thought, if I don’t find a toilet in the next five minutes I’m going to shit myself. The turtle head was… this is TMI. I was running through the subway in crippling agony thinking, I could just squat in a corner! I’ve got to shit, now! 

GDLP - Me and your Mum just stood on a street corner, wondering when you’d come back. Little did we know Zarina was just squatting in the middle of the subway, just shitting. 

ZM - I can’t remember where I went to the toilet but I did manage to find a little restaurant. I didn’t shit on the subway. But I can imagine that’s not the worst thing to happen on that platform. They’re vile. Rank, that subway. 

GDLP - That’s so funny.

ZM - Fair point. I natter to myself and I’ve got tummy problems. Other than that, I’m a catch! OK, your turn. Do you believe chemistry is inherent or can it develop over time?

GDLP - I think chemistry is inherent, but I think that doesn’t mean you’re going to have a good relationship with someone. As someone who is very good at flirting, I think I can say this. You can have a very good flirt with someone, the chemistry can be there, you’re vibing, the conversation is good, the atmosphere and tension and all of that works for some reason even if you can’t explain it. But it can just end there. That doesn’t mean you’re going to go through sickness and health and money and no money and whatever the wedding vows say that I can’t remember right now. It doesn’t mean that it’s got any legs. Chemistry can just be this fleeting moment of an encounter, I think. And you can enjoy it, for what it is. That’s what one night stands are for. It doesn’t need to go any further. I think that should be celebrated. It’s a nice thing, it’s not a sad thing. It needs to be there for a good relationship as well. Without it, what’s the fucking point?

ZM - What about in a platonic way?

GDLP - Hmm. 

ZM - Have you ever had a friend you didn’t hit it off with immediately and then over time, you know?

GDLP - Personally, no. I feel like all my friendships have had that strange platonic ‘I think we might be really good friends’ excitement. You don’t know what to say because it’s platonic, it’s not flirtatious. You’re excited because you’ve got things in common. You speak in the same rhythm and you’re on the same volume and you’re in tune in an exciting way that means you can have fun together or be creative together. I think all my friendships have started in a silly, fun, creative way. I don’t think I’ve ever had to push past that with someone to get to it. I don’t think personally I believe it would come. Do you feel differently?

ZM - I don’t know. What I’m getting confused about is that I’m stush.

GDLP - Explain that for people who aren’t in London, please. 

ZM - I’m a bit stuck up, I’m a bit aloof. Not in a nasty way, just that I’m from London and we’re all kind of a bit stush like that. Initially not very friendly. So, I wonder if that initial coldness is like, me being ‘oh there’s no chemistry’ but it develops, or just me being like, a frosty city girl.

GDLP - I think you’ve just got your walls up. And I don’t.

ZM - But you gotta!

GDLP - No, because maybe there’s nice moments to be had with everyone, with the taxi driver. Last time I got in a taxi I learnt so much Persian, we just had such a nice time. On the way out of the taxi, I said thank you and goodbye to him in Persian and his face was like… my god. We should have just added each other on the internet because we were vibing. We had chemistry!

ZM - Taxi drivers, kebab shop guys, anyone that can be described as ‘boss man’. They’re different. You can’t be stush with boss man, because boss man is like a proxy father figure.

GDLP - That is literally true!

ZM - If they run a little shop, you can buy Lucozade from them. Why are you acting like you’re too nice…

GDLP - That is pure wisdom, that is so true. I say that as someone whose Dad is an actual taxi driver and we don’t have the best relationship. So maybe I am looking for it in all the other people. 

ZM - Because there is something about the intimacy of being in the back of that cab, the silence of the road, you know what I mean? It is its own kind of thing. 

GDLP - The silence of the road!

ZM - There’s an intimacy in buying a little packet of crisps from the same man whose shop is on the corner where you live. There’s something about that, like, there’s no point having the walls up, that’s boss man.

GDLP - You know it’s kind of temporary, as well. You’re never going to stand in that shop and be with that guy all day, you’re in and out. Taxi driver, you’re in and out. It allows for a different kind of interaction.

ZM - I’ve never met an Uber driver I didn’t get on with. 

GDLP - That’s very lucky, though.

ZM - I don’t know if it’s just me, though! All the Uber drivers I’ve ever had have all been older Asian men. They love me. 

GDLP - Right. Seeing as you’re getting deep about the quiet of the road. Let’s carry on. Let’s get deeper with more questions from So Cards. This one’s not as heavy, this is nice and idealistic. Name one person whose life you are envious of. What makes their life so desirable? Timothee Chalamet’s girlfriend…

ZM - We already know that I’m living my dream, we’ve established that. Cool. I don’t think I’m jealous of any one particular person and their life at the moment. When I’ve been unhappy with my life I have been, I’m not like a perfect person. No nazar, no jinxing this… I’m v. haps. So no one in particular, I’m just jealous of the rich.

GDLP - OK. That’s where I was going to go with this. I was like, Zarina’s not got enough imagination, like, imagine first of all not living in England? We can pick literally billions of people to swap lives with in that instance, then we wouldn’t be in England anymore.

ZM - England I can take or leave. London, though. I love it here.

GDLP - Even with the gas prices? What if the gas prices didn’t matter because the sun made you warm?

ZM - The gas prices come and go yeah, the Turkish shop is forever!

GDLP - London is forever!

ZM - I wouldn’t go that far, just the little Turkish shop down the road. You don’t get that everywhere, you don’t…

GDLP - What about Turkey?

ZM - Even there it’s not the same! Have you been to Turkey? They don’t have a little Turkish shop! 

GDLP - I have been to Turkey yeah.

ZM - The hummus is better. The hummus in London, it’s crap. But in a good way. I had a falafel yesterday. It was so bad, but so good. The little falafel wrap.

GDLP - I would swap lives with so many people.

ZM - Look. I’d do it for a day, but I’d come back. If you want my little holiday list, I’ll give you my little holiday list. Obviously, yeah, I’d swap lives with Timothee Chalamet, himself.

GDLP - Himself?!

ZM - Because I think he looks like he has fun. I would swap lives with Mollie-Mae…

GDLP - Because she’s got more hours in the day than we do!

ZM - She’s got more hours in the day! I’d just do it for one day and I’d spend an eternity. I’d be Rihanna. Could you imagine being Rihanna for even an hour?

GDLP - You would have to be pregnant though… less desirable.

ZM - Maybe Rihanna two years ago. You know what I mean? I’d swap lives with a BBC morning show presenter.

GDLP - What the fuck?

ZM - Because I just want to know what goes on inside their heads. They can’t be like that. You know what i mean? Why are they like that? They can’t all be like that. There’s an inner darkness.

GDLP - There is an inner darkness, I agree. Empty heads. Telly prompter robot people.

ZM - I’ve completely lied - I would swap lives in a heartbeat with Haruki Murakami. I just want to know what goes on in that man’s head. Just live there. I want to live there. But also be him.

GDLP - OK. We have a problem now, because when I imagine this question being laughed, I imagine that it’s your head inside now. I don’t think his head is there anymore. I think your head’s there now. That might not be the case. You would just be in his body in his life with his bank account and passwords.

ZM - I wouldn’t care for that. Right, I like my head. But I like my head in my body in my life. My head in Haruki Murakami’s body would be a head-fuck. Not the same. I’m nosey, that’s what I’m saying. I would be interested in this for no reason other than pure nosiness. 

GDLP - If you were in his body, you’d have to write a book. And everyone would be like… this is different. His editor would be like- Haruki, what’s going on? Do we need to have a chat? 

ZM - Yeah. This is not what we discussed.

GDLP - Tommy Fury would be like - Molly, you’re acting differently today! And you’d be like- no I’m not! 

ZM - You’re walking around talking to everything that you touch, what’s going on? You’ve never done that before? That’s what he’d say, yeah. I would be interested in doing this as as an exercise in nosiness rather than an exercise in envy.

GDLP - You could read Molly-Mae’s emails!

ZM - Can you imagine the business secrets I could absorb! I could come back with that girl-boss knowledge, that girl-boss guidebook.

GDLP - Your answers really interested me though because you’re thinking about other people’s lifestyles, I’m thinking really functionally - like, I want heat, I want a bigger house, I would like to be taller, I would like- I like glasses, but imagine not needing them?

ZM - I hate glasses, they are horrible cages for the face.

GDLP - Especially with a mask on! Terrible.

ZM - A mask, and in the rain. Worst combo. 

GDLP - Terrible, can’t see what’s going on. I don’t know who this tall person in a big house in a hot country is, but I’ll be them.

ZM - I’d like to be Jack Grealish.

GDLP - For the legs?

ZM - Also because he just looks like he has a lot of fun. 

GDLP - Yeah. You’d have to have that fun, you’d have to make that fun, because you’re Jack Grealish. You’re forgetting the rules of the game!

ZM - No! Listen, this is-

GDLP - Can you do football?

ZM - Jack Grealish can do football! And that’s what counts.

GDLP - But can you to football?

ZM - As Jack Grealish, I imagine I would absorb the skills, no?

GDLP - The muscle memory. Yeah, you get muscle memory.

ZM - I would also like to spend the day in the head of a leading politician. I don’t wish to be cancelled…

GDLP - Who?

ZM - I would obviously like to be Boris Johnson.

GDLP - Quickly explain yourself, before…

ZM - No, I will not be shamed for this! This is a hill I will die on. Would you not like to know what actually goes on in that man’s head? Not just because he’s like ‘bonkers’ because I think that’s on purpose but even if the Prime Minister right now was Theresa May, I’d want to be in her head. I’d want to be in David Cameron’s head. I just want to know what their day looks like. What do they do? What do they say in these meetings, what do people say to them? Do they actually think about the things they are doing when they are fucking up our lives?

GDLP - So to you, the biology, in terms of this question, is that you become this other person and your brains are both squeezed in there, so next to each other?

ZM - No no, see, what it is. The biology is - I, as a person, get shrunk down really small and taken into these people’s heads in a little miniature cargo ship. I watch behind their eyes like it’s incredible TV. 

GDLP - This is so funny.

ZM - I feel the things they feel, so it’s like, passive. I’m a tourist, passing through. A viewer.

GDLP - Is there anyone fictional that you would be?

ZM - Yeah, probably, not off the top of my nut though… Yes! I’d like to be Lizzie Bennett because I fancy Mr Darcy.

GDLP - Oh God. This is who we are as people - I was like, I’ll be Ash from Pokemon. How fun would that be?

ZM - But also, I imagine they fucked at the end. So it’s a bit saucy. I reckon this might be the kind of stuff you have to cut actually… I dare you to keep it in, though. I imagine Mr Darcy would be way too nervous for it to be good the first time.

GDLP - Yeah.

ZM - But then…

GDLP - Can you write that, fan fiction?

ZM - Absolutely not, no way. 

GDLP - Someone might already have done it.

ZM - Yes! Hear me out, right. He’d be too nervous the first time but the second time he’d be really keen to make it up to you… too keen…

GDLP - He’s done a bit of research.

ZM - It’s a long time since I watched Spirited Away but I really wanted to be the little dragon, the river spirit.

GDLP - You want to be the dragon?

ZM - What’s his name?

GDLP - Haku.

ZM - Could you imagine just doing that through the air? Wiggle wiggle, through the air. Delightful. I don’t know about you but when I have a dream where I’m flying, I’m doing breaststroke.

(LAUGHTER)

GDLP - That’s because- do you know why that is? Why you’re imagining that? Because of the original Willy Wonka!

ZM - No!!! 

GDLP - When they go into that room where you eat things and it makes you fly, they breast stroke through the air. Go on, ask one more question. Make it the best one so far. Even though these questions have been really fun.

ZM - Pressure’s on, now you’ve said that. What compliments are most likely to boost your ego, and why do those work so well? Give me your praise kink manual.

GDLP - Oh my god. I just like being told I’ve done a good job. Do you know if you could get points for life, and I know this is very Black Mirror. But I would love points for everything.

ZM - You just want everything to be gamified.

GDLP - I want everything gamified because it’s just a drip of external validation. I want people to tell me, this is good. Do you know what? Just to be explicit about these things. It’s why when we post reviews every Sunday I’ll be excited, because people like or retweet things, nice, thanks. But they’re little points. The big points is when someone replies or quote tweets because then you get to know what they actually think. Or if they comment. Or they send a message. The biggest point is when people email. Every time I write about specifically this game Death Stranding, someone emails me. I get an email from a stranger on the other side of the world, that’s like, I fucking love this text. And I’m like, I fucking loved your email. I couldn’t give a shit about compliments about me, physically, you look nice, whatever…

ZM - Really?

GDLP - I want to do well. I want that, that’s my praise kink.

ZM - OK, hold on, wait. We all know how I feel about being called a good girl. 

(LAUGHTER)

GDLP - Your face when you said that to me! I’m going to have to screenshot.

ZM - No, no!

GDLP - Zarina we don’t all know what you feel like!

ZM - Oh I forgot that you’ve got self-view turned off so my face is just massive on your iMac. For the listeners on the podcast - I learned in, my enormous bird head was knocking against the camera. We all know I love being called a good girl.

GDLP - Wouldn’t it be nice to be a dog? They get called that all the time.

ZM - I love being praised! Praise kink, praise kink! And it’s fine, because it’s not even-

GDLP - Who doesn’t have a praise kink at this point? 

ZM - In this day and age.

GDLP - Capitalism has bred the praise kink in us. It’s a gene that is passed on through us in a horrible legacy. We will take what we can get, which is to be called a good girl.

ZM - But is that it for you? Is that the compliment that would boost your ego?

GDLP - What’s interesting is we’ve never won a prize. 

ZM - And it kills me! It does! Does it not kill you? I want to get up onstage and be like hi, I’m the best girl.

GDLP - I just clapped, sorry to the microphone… honestly, I would love to be those people who are like, I’m going to split the prize. But I would run away with it. It’s mine, I beat you all. People have this idea of The White Pube as this ideal fair society example…

ZM - Non-hierarchical…

GDLP - All of this, because we do put that out there. 

ZM - Yeah, yeah, politically, that’s us. But now we’re really competitive.

GDLP - I want a prize. We don’t even put ourselves up for prizes, we never nominate… I don’t know how people get prizes, I’m not gonna lie. 

ZM - Now anyone that is listening, nominate us for things, especially if you fancy us in secret.

GDLP - What’s that gotta do with any of it?

ZM - Because then you can nominate us for a prize and it’ll give us a secret tingle.

GDLP - That’s so funny. I think I would like a little prize, because that is the most validation. It is validation in the shape of a little trophy that you can put in your room and you look at it and think, I did good. So shall we wrap it up?

ZM - What did you think of these?

GDLP - I think these cards have been a really nice way for me to get to know you, because I thought I did. 

ZM - You’ve known me for seven years!

GDLP - I thought I did, but we’re super busy now and when we sit down to chat its just about Instagram. This has been really fun and I really recommend it in a really sincere way for other people to do. You think you know the people around you, but you could always know them more. 

ZM - You could always know yourself more to be honest actually because half of the shit that came out of my gob I was surprised by. Forgot I wanted to be an RAF-

GDLP - Murderer?

ZM - GI Fucking Jane, Jesus Christ! Unlocked that core memory, thanks cards.

GDLP - If you want to pick up a pack of So… Cards, it’s just socards.org and there are different volumes. And as we said before, there’s the over 18 version as well. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you especially if you are one of our supporters on Patreon, PayPal or Ko-Fi. Thank you and we will see you on the next episode of the podcast.

ZM - Byee!

GDLP - Byee!